May 142012

Old school Todd Bertuzzi is interested your thoughts on flawed-but-a-fit.

In the PR business, there’s an unstated strategy that companies  release bad news late on a Friday in hopes that the media, investors and general public don’t notice.  Proving that we’re the exception to the rule around here, as ever, you guys lit up the comments section last Friday discussing the “Give Me Patrick Kane” post. Tons of great points made, including:

Detroit is too damn close to Ann Arbor to keep Kane out of trouble, especially since he spent time there in his NTDP years (h/t Brad and Sunday);

Kane is far too flawed an adolescent and too big an asshole with too bad a track record to get let anywhere near Metro Detroit (h/t Jenemy); and

We forgave Bertuzzi…why not Kane? (h/t Mike).

So where did we land?

Nowhere in particular, but we did start an interesting conversation about how we prioritize players and build out the next generation of our beloved Wings.  Tip of the iceberg, no doubt, but as we go through this offseason, there are some themes here that we’ll revisit.

There are two camps among us: those that think the team is good as-is and needs minor tweaking, and those of us who think there need to be some major changes.  I’m in the latter group, and with that mindset, it’s hard to dismiss at least CONSIDERING what it would take…both from a “moral flexibility” and trade value standpoint…to get a high-end talent like Kane into a better shade of Red.

The latest out of Chicago, via CNNSI’s Truth/Rumor backs up the idea we started Friday’s discussion with that Kane might be wearing out his welcome and could find his ass elswehere:

Some of the allegations attached to Patrick Kane, only few weeks removed from his NHL season, are certainly disturbing. Thus far, there’s no way to know if either of those incidents occurred because the Hawks denied access to Kane, and other efforts to reach him were unsuccessful. Moreover, anonymous sources on a website can’t be assumed to be reliable. Still, at best, the early-May behavior was boorish and should be an embarrassment to Kane, whose image has begun to transform from that of an NHL superstar to one of a punch line. … The question begins to be raised, is Kane wearing out his welcome with the organization? When (if?) he does grow up or instead fritters away his remarkable talent in a haze of frat parties, will it be in a Hawks uniform?

Chicago Tribune

For a minute, let’s take Kane out of this.  Let’s pretend that the little fucker doesn’t even exist.  Maybe Jenemy finally DID get her hands on his pencil-necked ass and gave him the beating he 100% deserved.  By most accounts, we’re still a power forward and a top-2 blueliner away from legitimate contention next year.  The biggest problem isn’t the lack of forwards or defensemen out there this offseson, it’s the fact that there are a hell of a lot of teams every offseason who think they’re in the same boat – one or two trades away from The Team. These basics of supply and demand tighten that free agency market to the point where someone is going to overpay – significantly – for the few truly coveted blue chippers and when they do they reset expectations for all the other FA’s.  They set the price so high that you either have to gut the team to bring in the remaining free agents or amble back to your shanty with the original team intact. On a small scale, this is the system that cornered Kenny into paying Shitbox (that’s what we call Ericsson around here, Dan) 3-large this past summer.

Add it up, and we’re faced with needing to fin compromises this offseason.  There are different categories of compromises, but they all come down to balancing strengths and weaknesses, then placing your bets.  What can you live with?  What can you fix that the other club couldn’t? How bad do you need them?

We’ve got a strong track record in Detroit of finding guys with flaws…guys who didn’t get the “Love and Tenderness” they needed elsewhere…and turning them into legitimate pros. This speaks to the need to actively seek guys with flaw.  Who’s been a pain in the ass in their locker room?  Who’s got a history for acting like a complete bitch?  Who never falls inline with the system?  Who came in with inflated expectations and fell flat?

It’s easy to say “give me Parise.”  Half the teams in this league feel entitled to a player of that caliber.  The difference between Detroit and Toronto is that while we carry that sense of entitlement and understand how amazing it would be to get him in a wing and wheel, we’re open to taking on guys who aren’t the obvious choice…the guys you DON’T have to gut your roster or farm team to bring in…and we actually go out and execute on some of those less-than-desirables.

If you operate under the assumption that we’re not getting both a broadly recognized topline forward and defenseman this offseason…and if you’re of the mindset that we do, in fact, need to fill those positions…what’s YOUR move? Who fits into that “flawed but a fit” bucket?  Who are the ugly ducklings out there who are wearing out their welcome, who aren’t living up to expectations, who we can bring in to fill out these high end forward and defensemen slots?

Better put: If it ain’t Kane, who is it?

  • MI in DC

    Semin has to count as flawed right? With all the talk about his lack of effort and what not he seems to fit the bill. The only issue with him is how much money he’s asking for. I’m thinking after making $6.7m he’s not looking for a pay cut, not a substantial one anyway. Personally, I think he’d be great value at $5m or maybe even$5.5m, but anything beyond that I think may be pushing it for a player regarded as so tempermental.  

  • http://twitter.com/512Disch Rob Discher

    Exactly what I’m talking about.  I know Caps fans who are absolutely infuriated with “Sasha,” but the guy has undeniable talent.  He’s one of a few guys I think make the discussion pretty interesting, but to your point, there’s no way he’s making Lidstrom money if he comes here.  

  • Andre Boillot

    Living in Chicago, I should have to recuse myself – basically, as long as Kane doesn’t score against the Wings, I’m happy to take the loss.  There’s something unnatural about the loathing I have for him.  While I take your overall point on Detroit having a strong track record of reclamation projects…I still don’t see it.

    Kane doesn’t really seem to resemble to the rest of Detroit’s projects.  These tend to be low-risk / high-reward in nature.  The three years left on Kane’s contract might seem like a drop in the ol bucket compared to the eons left on Franzen’s, but he’s far from the low-wage / one-year flier we usually take out in these cases. Also, how often have we brought in high-profile primadonnas?  When we bring in a Brunnstrom, he’s forced to earn it in the minors. 

    I get that Kane is young, and presumably has some room to grow. But I feel like so many of the second-chances the Wings have given to players were players who had realized they were no longer xyz, and need to either change scenery, play style, etc…  My bet is that Kane isn’t that guy yet.  I also don’t see who on this team is going to corral him.  Didn’t we just spend a couple months talking about how the leadership vacuum left by the departures of Draper and Osgood was never properly filled?  Who’s got the track record / influence to lean on a guy that could easily be the team’s top scorer? What’s Kane’s motivation to play harder (before his contract year) if traded?

    If Detroit can’t lure the necessary FAs – players much preferable than Kane – this off-season, they’re in the sort of trouble that adding Kane isn’t likely to fix.

    P.S.  Hopefully you got the Deadwood reference from last time.

  • http://twitter.com/RedWings3RDP Mike

    Well, as I beautifully wrote in this post on my blog 
    http://tinyurl.com/dyr8tkk (end shameless plug), one contender that I think would be interesting – maybe not possible but interesting – for the Red Wings to look into is Rick Nash. Nash is a big power forward with a skillset that maybe not Datsyukian, is still impressive. As I’ve said, he is what Brendan Shanahan was, he’s what Todd Bertuzzi was before The Moore Incident (and continues to be exclusively in shootouts). And he has made it very clear that he doesn’t want to be in Columbus anymore. So could a division opponent like the Red Wings secure him?

    He comes with a hefty price tag, salary cap and trade wise to obtain him. Certainly you’d be hard pressed to say we could afford Rick Nash AND Johan Franzen. And unfortunately, with Franzen’s lackluster streaks of not doing anything of value, it’d be hard to pack him up and send him on his way. I don’t know if Columbus would take Franzen (and other considerations) in exchange for Nash. 

    One point I do argue is that sometimes it’s not a matter of what’s best for the team, but what’s best for the player. Maybe what guys like Filppula, Hudler and Franzen need are teams where they’re not 3rd, 4th and 5th bananas to Datsyuk and Zetterberg. And Filppula’s tearing up of the World Championship tournie, I think, lends some support to that claim. I would hate to send Filppula after such a break out year, and he adds value to the Zetterberg-Hudler-Filppula line as a second center who can come in with the refs throw Z out of the faceoff circle for no reason. But maybe packing up Franzen, Filppula (or Hudler. Please let it be Hudler) and a draft pick or a Griffin might be enough to entice Columbus to let Rick Nash go. Columbus gets a couple of point generators with deep playoff experience and a Stanley Cup, they get to be the foundation blocks for the rebuilding of a team and maybe play bigger roles, Rick Nash gets to get out of Columbus which he no doubt feels is dragging him down, and the Red Wings get a (hopefully) consistent Top 3 forward they desperately need. And as I pointed out, Rick Nash is a big (6’3-6’4, 215lbs) strong power forward that plays the opposite wing from his shot – just like previous Red Wings power forward Brendan Shanahan.As I suggested: A line of Datsyuk between Gustav Nyquist and Rick Nash. Imagine that and then get yourself a change of pants. 

  • http://twitter.com/512Disch Rob Discher

    First of all, Deadwood is on my list of shows to tackle once the bevy of HBO current aweomeness (GOT, etc) subsides.  

    Second, you make a great point about the difference between a “past their young/dumb years” Clear + Eaves + Bertuzzi and where Kane is. My point here is that we’re not just going to waltz into Suter or Parise’s living room and charm their mother into giving us their son’s services like Nick Saban (or Mack Brown for my fellow Austinites).  We’re going to have to take some chances. Maybe it’s Semin (who would be worth it for the jokes/headlines alone) as noted above. 

    If it’s not though, who else’s door do you knock on?

  • http://twitter.com/GuiCalciolari Guilherme Calciolari

    Bertuzzi has nothing to do with this. He screwed up once, his (horrible, horrible) action had a result that nobody could’ve predicted, he paid his dues and never did something slightly similar since.

    Kane is a douchebag who’s had at least three stupid incidents and is still the same.

  • http://twitter.com/GuiCalciolari Guilherme Calciolari

    Ah, I can’t reply

  • http://twitter.com/GuiCalciolari Guilherme Calciolari

    Nash for Filppula, Hudler and a first is always my first trade in any videogame.

  • Andre Boillot

    “My point here is that we’re not just going to waltz into Suter or Parise’s living room and charm their mother into giving us their son’s services like Nick Saban (or Mack Brown for my fellow Austinites).”
    Clearly they don’t have a little thing called ‘Old Spice’ in Austin.  You just give me the address, and we’ll call it a day.

  • http://twitter.com/RedWings3RDP Mike

    I’d take take Kane over Semin. Kane’s problems are off the ice, and despite his off-ice stupidity, he’s still getting it done on the ice. So if you get him to stop being stupid, he could still be a good hockey player. He just sucks at drinking, as that Chicago blog pointed out.

    Semin seems to not show up on the ice at times. And I wonder if that’s because he’s competing with Ovechkin, Backstrom (and now Chimera, too) for the lime light. Think he’ll straighten up behind Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom? Where we haven’t had a prima-donna on our squad since Sergei Federov (and are better off for it)? Or is he going to be Pouty McPoutington here, too?

  • http://twitter.com/512Disch Rob Discher

    There’s an entirely separate 1,000 word spat here, but the short version is I agree with you, Herm.  Bertuzzi and Kane = two entirely different incidents.  

  • http://twitter.com/512Disch Rob Discher

    Much as I would love that to happen, Rick Nash is never coming to Detroit.  I would love to be proven wrong on this, but teams this year were throwing around huge (rumored)  deals the Wings never would have to the BJ’s and he’ll still open up next season in an odd looking Blue/Grey jersey listening to that cannon go off ever fifth game when they pot one at home.  

  • http://twitter.com/RedWings3RDP Mike

    Even in Skyrim?

  • http://twitter.com/512Disch Rob Discher

    We have tequila.  It’s essentially the same thing.  Ask Hollis.  He was down here a few months back.  

  • Andre Boillot

    With the upcoming Jeff Daniels political-themed series coming up, I wouldn’t bet on HBO’s awesomeness subsiding in the near future.  Better to just write the apology notes now, buy the blurays, and rejoin society in a few weeks.

  • http://twitter.com/RedWings3RDP Mike

    Maybe maybe not. One thing to consider is the No Trade Clause. Even if Columbus gets the offer they want for Nash, he can take one look at it and go, “I’m not going to fuckin’ Edmonton!” and the deal is off. So it has to been a combination of a deal that the two can agree upon.

    And I’m guessing there’s some contention in that organization. Nash did kind of Biden then. I seem to recall CBJ going:

    “No we’re not trading Rick Nash. He’s happy and we’re happy and-” 

    Nash: “I WANT TO BE TRADED AND HERE ARE TEAMS I WOULD ACCEPT TRADES TO!

    “*pause*

    CBJ: “We are now considering offers for Rick Nash”

    So maybe they take a deal that isn’t their favorite because it rids them of the headache that is dealing with an angry star player. Yes the cosmos has to align in such a way that probably dictate it never happening…but it is an idea besides Kane, Parise or Semin.

  • http://twitter.com/512Disch Rob Discher

    …or Gears of War?

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  • MI in DC

    I agree about taking Kane, he’s just a better player.

    But to go along with your argument, I would argue that Franzen just flat out doesn’t show up some nights so it’s not like this isn’t an issue the Wings (and every other team in hockey for that matter) are having to deal with on a nightly basis.

  • chadster

    Chicago will only trade Kane for a top goalie or a top dman, neither of which Detroit will give up (much less give to Chicago), so why even discuss his name?

  • chadster

    Doesn’t our track record indicate that players are willing to take undermarket value to play here, especially when they are comparing their own skill set to the likes of Lidstrom and Datsyuk.

  • http://twitter.com/RedWings3RDP Mike

    Right, so why invite it in the form of Semin if we’re already dealing with it with Franzen?

  • MI in DC

    One word: Talent

  • AdamVIII

    What about Danny Heatley? What would it take to get him?

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  • http://twitter.com/RedWings3RDP Mike

    Franzen has plenty of talent, and I would say a much better temperament than Semin.

  • http://twitter.com/RedWings3RDP Mike

    Not a terrible idea. He comes with a 7.5mil cap hit. Not sure what Minnesota would be willing to take for him. Although he’s 31 and I think I’d prefer someone a few years younger. 

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